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 AC Stat Aug Vs. Rune Aug - Primary Weapon

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Warfare



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Join date : 2014-03-30

PostSubject: AC Stat Aug Vs. Rune Aug - Primary Weapon   Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:19 pm

On a weapon with stunning strike or any other inate proc outside of rune, do we put a rune proc in or a AC stat aug for raiding??

I have been on a quest to find out once and for all on this and what I have found has been very interesting as well as frustrating...

EQ Forums and Steel Warrior have mixed feelings with no statistics.

Arguments for Rune proc in a raiding tank.
1. Many argue that rune is good for AE hatred to quickly gain agro on multiple targets similar to the reason that Pally's have it.
2. Rune will absorb a decent percentage of the dmg up to 2% some say and the additional AC, even 40AC will not mitigate that much of the damage.
3. Rune helps generate more hate for a tank
4. augs like exhumed will also give you extra base damage thus increasing hate.

Arguments for AC /Stat aug for a raiding tank:
1. The rune is only there when proc'd and not always there like the AC is
2. Rune procs give 850 hp - 1k hp dmg mitigation and overall that is nothing when being hit for 20-40k where the AC and extra HP in an aug will mitigate better.
3. Raid tanks need as much AC as possible to take less damage from harder hitting mobs.

So I went on a search and looked at all the magelos of the top 30 wars in the server.  most of them have AC stat augs.... I went out and sent /tells to ALL of them.... 50% had exhumed Rune aug in the Ripoli, and 50% had the AC/stats...   So this was frustrating... same arguments on both sides for the augs...

So I decided to go out and parse it and at different levels to see if there was a difference as well as compare when multiple mobs were on you at once.  All the parses involved me actually hitting back at the target.

It is given that if you do not hit back the rune will not proc and thus making the AC aug the best choice.  However, give me a scenario other than tormax when you would never hit back ?

1st set of parses were 6 total fights at 30 minutes each.  Dueling lvl 100 necro pet. No buffs except haste

Average of the 3 fights 1.5 hours total using Caedes w/ Exhumed Rune

Damage Taken = 209937
avg hit = 493

Average of 3 fights 1.5 hours total using Caedes w/ Stone of the Crystal Circle

damage Taken = 271009
avg hit = 464

It looks like the AC aug mitigated some of the damage resulting in a lower average hit but not enough to say I took less damage as a result.  Exhumed Rune proced on that weapon 9 times every 2

minutes. I took 61,072 more dmg with the AC aug.

So that might be called a grp level fight so I wanted to see higher hitting mobs.  Does the harder hitting mobs that minus out the rune instantly show any differences?

2nd set of parses were 6 total fights at 101 seconds each.  level 96 Rog Alaran in Shard's Landing - No buffs except haste

Average of the 3 fights @ 101s each total using Caedes w/ Exhumed Rune

Damage Taken = 306352
avg hit = 3635

Average of 3 fights @ 101s each total using Caedes w/ Stone of the Crystal Circle

Damage Taken = 307522
avg hit = 3384

I started seeing a significant difference in dmg mitigation with the AC aug here.  I only took 1,170 dmg more with the AC aug this time.

I started to think there might be something more to this when I started to think that the DPS differences could be contributing.  I noticed that NPC DPS incoming to me was decreased with rune aug and increased with AC aug but I contributed this to the actual rune proc going off 9 times every 2 minutes...

I decided to take this further and look at more mobs and even look at multiple mobs at once....

3rd set of parses were 2 total fights with 3 mobs at once.  level 88 War Alaran in Argath - Cert and haste

Average of the fight using Caedes w/ Exhumed Rune

Avg Damage Taken = 154104
Total Damage Taken = 462313
avg hit = 3020
NPC DPS=1484

Average of the fight using Caedes w/ Stone of the Crystal Circle

Avg Damage Taken = 141066
Total Damage Taken = 423198
avg hit = 2833.5
NPC DPS=2616

From this it's obvious that the AC mitigated 136.5 more dmg per hit.  The rune seems to have reduced the nps dps quite a bit as well but I found it interesting that I took less overall dmg with the AC aug.  The variable here could have been that it was a 3 mob pull.


4th set of parses were 6 total fights @ 85 - 97sec ea.  level 88 War Alaran in Argath - Cert and haste

Average of the fight using Caedes w/ Exhumed Rune

Damage Taken = 130284
avg hit = 2961
NPC DPS=1754.5
#of hits = 44 ea

Average of the fight using Caedes w/ Stone of the Crystal Circle

Damage Taken = 118932
avg hit = 2703
NPC DPS=1644.5
#of hits = 44 ea

Here when I base the stats on 44 hits total the lower avg hit per hit gives a lower total dmg proving ac mitigation.  however, total stats and per mob get rather confusing as they vary:

5th set of parses individual fights  level 88 War Alaran in Argath - Cert and haste

Average of the fight using Caedes w/ Exhumed Rune

Damage Taken = 103874
avg hit = 2473
NPC DPS=1082
#of hits = 42

Damage Taken = 130830
avg hit = 2973
NPC DPS=1407
#of hits = 44

Damage Taken = 153442
avg hit = 2950
NPC DPS=2102
#of hits = 52

Damage Taken = 85672
avg hit = 2379
NPC DPS=1790
#of hits = 36

Damage Taken = 195474
avg hit = 2917
NPC DPS=1406
of hits = 67

Average of the fight using Caedes w/ Stone of the Crystal Circle

Damage Taken = 118163
avg hit = 2685
NPC DPS=1713
#of hits = 44

Damage Taken = 119762
av hit = 2721
NPC DPS=1576
#of hits = 44

Damage Taken = 127832
avg hit = 2242
NPC DPS=1346
#of hits = 57

Damage Taken = 267211
avg hit = 2520
NPC DPS=2936
#of hits = 106


But - The shards landing fight I parsed has me thinking about the super higher hitting mobs.... As a raid tank I wonder if fighting a raid boss would react differently.  I will need to parse the next few raids I tank. perhaps two of the same raid boss will really show if there is any difference.


It might depend on the situation... but for lower hitting content the rune seems to have greater benefits...  The more the mobs hit for seems unclear, does it still lean towards the rune or no? .....


So... What do all of you think is the best option??
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Llux
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PostSubject: Re: AC Stat Aug Vs. Rune Aug - Primary Weapon   Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:21 pm

Good post! Well written and thought out!

I took a moment to update my clicky and aug guide to version 1.4 in light of your post here. You will find a lil more information on your topic in the "My Augs" section of that post under the weapon augs portion.

You should know that I'm not a huge raider, though I have done my share for learning purposes and of course, gear. Primarily I solo or solo with a box just for fun or to test myself and test my class for these guides.

I can say that during my stint in the raiding world, I preferred AC over rune for the situational benefits like the one I mentioned in my update. There are just way more situations where procing just isn't possible to be worth giving up potential AC additions, and in those situations you don't have that extra AC to defend if you're using a rune aug. On the flipside, there are situations where the rune will save lives when someone screws up, thanks to it's AE like values (combined with a well placed use of skill or AA).

The reason that you have not been able to find a definitive answer to your question my friend, is because an answer does not exist. You have stumbled onto one of those topics that is all about personal preference rather than which is better or worse. Both of these routes are so close in comparison that it all boils down to what your playing style is like and what you prefer in each situation.

Myself, I have the same problem. I tend to want what is best in every situation but I realized that not every situation has a "best" route. What's best is within you and your style. Lets say that ice trumps fire everytime. Now let's say that the player using fire is way more experienced than the player using ice, and he wins as a result. Why do you think this is? It is because that player found what works for him and became better at it than anything else including "more powerful" things.

I could go on and on about reasons why one is better than the other in this case, but anything I say would be based on personal preference and/or experience. AC, I base on experience. AC is king above all I say, for warriors anyways.

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Angelyz - Level 97 RB1 Untamed Venomancer of PWI
Trina Danger - Level 175 Sorcery of DC Universe Online
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PostSubject: Re: AC Stat Aug Vs. Rune Aug - Primary Weapon   Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:11 pm

Based on Warfare's results in his post, I finally took the time to do some parse testing of my own and I came up with about the same results, just on a larger scale since I'm 100...

I can confidently give a definitive answer on this now that I've tested it. AC is king over rune and I will tell you why...

Using rune may have its advantages in certain areas of gameplay and beat out AC as far as mitigation goes. But look at the overall results of the tests. The AC beats out rune way more often, making it hard not to choose it over a rune aug. While the rune may beat AC in a situation or two, it's not enough of a difference to make it worthy of keeping since there are far more situations where AC is the better choice.

With that said, now you must take your AA's and discs into account. Combining your skills along with having an AC aug in your weapon is going to further increase your mitigation if you know what you're doing. Your skills are going to make more of an impact than either aug will anyways. But for the sake of deciding which is the better choice to use, I still say AC is king.

As far as the rune AE agro goes, if you're a good warrior, the rune agro isn't going to make enough of a difference to make it worthy of keeping over more AC. A good warrior won't need the rune agro in other words.

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Llux - Level 110 Dark Elf Warrior of Everquest
Angelyz - Level 97 RB1 Untamed Venomancer of PWI
Trina Danger - Level 175 Sorcery of DC Universe Online
"Know more than you show, speak less than you know"
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